Allison: [00:00:00] Welcome Cindy, back your second time on the Inspire Budget Podcast. I’m happy to have you here. 

Cindy:

Thank you. Thank you. I, I love talking to you, Allison, so I’m happy to be here. . 

Allison: Yeah, we’ve already behind the scenes, been talking for 20 minutes. It’s been wonderful when I was like, let’s hit record. We need to get all of this

Um, On our podcast episode, but I’m so excited that you’re back because you have such an incredible story and I wanna highlight it because I think that it’s very motivating and inspiring for others. So you went from, you know, going, having a lot of student loan debt. Yeah. Being a full-time attorney, paying it off, and now, Plot twist.

You own your own business. Yes. And you’ve left being an attorney. So I wanna know how you found yourself here in this stage of your life, where you left such a high paying job with those types of opportunities to create something on your own. 

Cindy: Yeah. You know, sometimes I think about that too, right? , [00:01:00] it’s like, wait, what?

It’s like, why didn’t you do that again? You know, I’d have to like constantly remind myself because, you know, honestly leaving my law firm was hands down. It, it’s been the toughest decision that I’ve had to make. Mm-hmm. , you know, certainly in the past few years, and I think the easy answer comes down to like the.

Honestly, and I think that’s that’s what happened to a lot of people, right? It’s like the pandemic made us realize that life is incredibly short. Mm-hmm. and life is for risk taking and life is for betting on yourself. And that’s literally what I did. I decided to bet on myself. I went from being a corporate attorney at a, you know, very well respected, reputable law firm in New York City to working out of my home office, you know, working on my business full time where.

I don’t think I make like a quarter of the salary or like a fifth of the salary even that I was making as, as a full-time attorney. Um, but really the reason why I did it was because [00:02:00] I, I knew I had a lot to give and I knew I had a lot of impact to make when it comes to personal finance, especially as a first generation Latina from the Bronx.

Like I had a unique story that I was very confident was going to. Sincerely uplift people and motivate them and empower them to get the, to get themselves right with their finances. Uh, you know, a more practical consideration of like, why I decided to leave was because I could not handle both, you know, I could not be a fantastic.

You know, litigation associate and a fantastic business owner. I couldn’t do both of those. And I think a lot of times, Allison we’re taught, we’re told, especially as women, right? Yes. We’re told that we can do it all. Mm-hmm. , and I’m not, I’m not gonna say that we can’t do everything that our heart desires.

I do think we can, but I don’t think we can do it [00:03:00] all at the same time. Mm-hmm. And I think that accepting that is, is very important. And it takes a lot of, you know, introspection and analysis and a heart to heart with yourself, with your loved ones to see, you know, what do I wanna pursue? And I thought that, you know, what I, I’m, I’m grateful for the years that I’ve given.

You know, law and actually law is something that I would love to go back to one day. You know, maybe in a different capacity. Yeah. Maybe in a different field. Uh, but I do think I still have a lot to give in that world. It’s just that right now, as for this chapter, I think full-time entrepreneurship, uh, will be best for me.

Yeah. 

Allison: You know what I love about your story, Cindy? I love that you are willing to say that there are these chapters in your life because I feel like so often when we make big changes, whether it’s with our career or I mean just anything moving out of. Away from our home. We feel like it’s this forever thing.

[00:04:00] Yes. We feel like it has to be this. Okay. I’m committing to this forever, but you literally just said, maybe I will go back to law one day. I’d love to go back to law one day. Yeah. So while you left it, it doesn’t mean that you have left it forever. 

Cindy: Right. And I think that some people see some people when they make this move, they are very determined on leaving forever.

Yeah. 

Allison: And that’s fine with me, right? Yes. That’s me with teaching. I said, you know what, if inspired budget doesn’t work out, I will find something else to do. I’m not going back into the classroom. 

Cindy: And you know what I think that’s so important is for you to be honest about what is it that you want the next stage of life to look like?

And maybe for you, let’s say if, you know, like you said, even though you have a very successful business, if next, you know, let’s say in five years, it’s not even that inspired budget doesn’t do well, but maybe you just wanna do something different. Yep. Right? Like you can give yourself the permission to do that.

Mm-hmm. . And you see, I think the problem is, and, and this is something that it’s taken me. You know, many, many years to realize is [00:05:00] that my whole life has been a chart list. You know, I, I went to school and it was like, go, go to school, get the top grades, be valedictorian, graduate at the top of your class.

Get into a competitive law school, graduate a top of that class, get the competitive job, you know, like, Everything in my life has been a checklist, and I think for the first time ever, for really the past year, I’ve decided that it does not have to be this linear checklist. What if life was just about living?

Like, that’s, that’s so, it, it’s, it’s such a concept, right? What if you just lived, what if you just embraced the next chapter for what it is? What if you, you know, with gratitude, think this current chapter and open yourself up to the next one. And I think that’s for me, where I am, where it’s like, you know, before, if you asked me, Cindy, what’s your five year plan?

Your 10 year plan? Your 20 year plan, girl, I would’ve given you, I would read [00:06:00] all the details. I would’ve broken it down, down to where I’m living and what I’m doing and what I’m wearing. Wow. I would’ve done everything now. It’s not like that. It’s not, it sounds, and I’m okay 

Allison: with that. Yeah, it sounds like before.

That’s so exhausting. Oh, so exhausting. Because that’s like, because then you’re never living up, right? Yeah. Because if you miss one thing on the checklist, yes. You’re not living up to the high expectations that you set for. 

Cindy: Exactly. And that’s what I was doing effectively. That that is what I was doing. I, I was, I was not living in the moment I was living for this arbitrary goal that I had set for myself.

And I wanna be very clear that it’s excellent to make goals. I’m huge on making goals. I think they’re, I think they’re powerful. I think they motivate us. Mm-hmm. , I think they challenge us, but we should not just live for that end. Right. Like, we kind of need to enjoy what’s happening in between because that’s where life happens.

It’s in the in between [00:07:00] moments. Wow. 

Allison: Yeah. Well, welcome to inspired therapy with Cindy. Right? 

Cindy: I mean, listen girl, I, I feel like I’m gonna therapy right now, , 

Allison: but this, I think this is so important because it’s very easy to just get into the daily grind. Yeah. And never stop. And we’re so busy. No matter, no matter who you are.

There’s things pulling at your attention all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And so it’s hard to stop and say, okay, what is it that I actually want to do? Yes. Not what the world tells me to do. Right. Yeah. So I love that you did that. So you decided, okay, the pandemic opened your eyes. It forced you to look at your life differently, look at your checklist and maybe throw it in the trash or Yeah.

Or maybe just like place it over to the side and say, I’ll get back to this later. I in the drawer, you know, . Exactly. Yeah. Maybe forget about it. And you decided, okay, I’m going to pivot out of this full-time job into something that I can put my heart and passion into, but isn’t as stable. Mm. And so [00:08:00] I wanna talk about just anyone that wants to do something like that where they pivot from this stability to maybe something that feels more like a rollercoaster.

How did you prepare yourself? Not just emotionally, cuz it sounds like we just talked about that. Yeah. But financially, to make that move, 

Cindy: yeah. You need to have a financial foundation in place. Mm-hmm. , you must, it’s a non-negotiable actually, because you see this whole entrepreneurship world. It’s scary. And it’s inconsistent.

I actually shared with someone the other day that I had a month this year where it was May, which was actually my birthday month, and I brought in $104. That’s what my business brought in. Gross. Yeah, that’s what my business brought in. My business brought in $104 because I had not taken on any type of work for like basically like two months at least.

You know, the new year, really, I mean, most of this [00:09:00] year I’ve spent writing my. And so I could not, and and that was a big wrench in my rollercoaster, right, was like, oh, here’s a book deal. Go write this book and essentially devote easily 80, 80 to 90% of your time on it, meaning that you’re gonna have to pause other revenue sources, right?

So talk about a rollercoaster. Um, you know, so I, I had one month where it was at, and I had another month where my business brought in like $28,000. I think it was like the month, right? You know, so it’s like, it’s, it’s ridiculous. , there’s no, there’s no like, like you wanna talk about inconsistency? Yeah.

Like, we’re talking about like basically a hundred bucks in one month and like, you know, like, I think it was like 28,000 the next Wow. Like something absolutely insane, right? Mm-hmm. . And so the reason why I, I, I, I offer my example, um, you know, as an example is because, Without a financial foundation, I, I [00:10:00] honestly, I don’t know that I would’ve been able to do this.

Mm-hmm. , you know, without my emergency fund. That’s rock solid and in place. Mm-hmm. without my, uh, what I created, which was, I know some people call it like an FU fund. Yeah. Um, I call it my sabbatical fund. Mm-hmm. , you know, I created a sabbatical fund, uh, where I basically gave myself runway for, you know, x amount of months to see if I can make my business really work.

Right. Yeah. Like, can I pull this off? And if I can’t, well then at least I. My sabbatical fund that can kind of help support me, you know, financially along the way, uh, being debt free. Was so important for me personally. And that’s because, uh, you know, for those of you that may have listened to the previous, uh, episode that I had with Allison, I shared about my story of paying off over $200,000 of debt, most of which was law school debt.

Mm-hmm. . And I do think. Look, I’m not here to say [00:11:00] you must be debt free before starting your business. I’m not here to say that at all, and I don’t wanna discourage anyone from taking that leap if they do have debt. But at the very least, make sure that your high interest debt is, is paid off. Yeah, I would say make sure that that’s paid off because those obligations don’t disappear because you become a business.

Allison: Exactly. Yes. And by the way, anyone who’s listening, it’s episode 53. If you go back to episode 53, you can hear Cindy’s amazing story. What I think is so important is that creating this sabbatical fund, which I actually called mine, my quit teaching fund cuz I wanted to quit teaching. Yeah, yeah. So I literally had savings account, just quit teaching.

Yeah. And I think having that, having your strong financial foundation, it removes some of that anxiety. Yes. And some of that, Because running your own business is already stressful. It already. Drives anxiety. So adding in personal finance, anxiety and stress on top of that, like, I mean, [00:12:00] that’s a recipe for disaster.

It’s a lot 

Cindy: and it’s a lot of pressure, you know? Mm-hmm. . And so for me personally, I, I think that, you know, Without that foundation of, for me, having an emergency fund, a sabbatical fund, having my debt paid off, knowing that my credit is doing pretty well. Right. My investments are there. They’re also doing well.

Like, well, you know, by, well, I don’t mean this year how the 

Allison: stock market just overall on average, average over the past 40 

Cindy: years, generally speaking, doing okay. Right. Like the fact that I have. Those, those, uh, really those pillars, right? Because that is what it is, and that is what I call them. Because I had those pillars in place.

I had a found financial foundation that I felt like I could rest on and that I could, I could trust, right? Like I had my own back in that regard. Now, you know, of course I have my husband, my husband has a full-time job, and I’d be lying if I [00:13:00] said that. That’s not an added source of security, right? Oh, yes.

Course it is. I mean, he’s, he’s my life partner, right? It’s so great to be able to have that mm-hmm. , but I also am of the mind that, you know, I, I, no one should just re like, rely on one source ever. Right. I’m not saying you shouldn’t rely on your partner. I’m saying that relying on just one source can be a little tricky.

Right. Um, so anyway, so, so all of that to say is that having those things in place really allowed me to take the leap with a lot more confide. Then if I had still been drowning in law school debt, still had my high interest credit card, I had like $12,000 in credit card debt at one point. You know, like if I had also had to battle that while trying to start.

Launch, you know, scale a business. Um, you, you know, not having that, uh, really allowed me to also just focus more mm-hmm. as a business 

Allison: owner. [00:14:00] Yeah. It takes away a mental block. Yeah. Yeah. You didn’t have that mental block there of your personal finances because you knew you had those things. Right. Okay, so you’re saying.

Have your high interest debt paid off, if possible? Yes. Have an emergency fund in place? Yes. Do you, what is your, like, typical standard recommendation 

Cindy: for that? Yeah, so definitely three, at least three to six months. Mm-hmm. , right? Yeah. I think three to six months. I think that if you want to leave your job, I think we wanna go a little closer to six months.

Yeah. Right. Because it, it’s riskier. This whole world of entrepreneurship is so much riskier. Whereas, you know, I was working full-time at the law firm. I think three months would probably be sufficient for me. Right. I don’t have children. Right. So it, that’s also an added thing. But if, for example, if you are, especially if you’re a parent, if you have dependence, uh, I, I do, I do believe that it’s better to err on the side of caution, uh, with ideally having at least a six month emergency fund.

Yeah. 

Allison: Right. [00:15:00] So we have your sabbatical fund, we have your, Uh, pay off the high interest debt. Have your emergency fund. Yeah. And then I think also just one thing you talked about is just understanding that it’s okay for this to be a chapter. Yeah. And that, and if you decide to leave whatever it is that you’re diving into, it doesn’t mean you failed at it.

Like you’re allowed to change your mind and what you want and what you wanna spend your time working on. And that’s, I think that that’s something that I need to tell myself because I always say like, oh, well, if inspire budget ever fails and I need to stop saying that, cuz then what am I saying? What am I speaking into existence?

Right. And instead saying if I decide to ever pivot and do something different. Yeah. If I decide to do something d. Exactly, and that’s, and 

Cindy: that’s, and that’s fine. That’s fine. I think that a lot of times we think, we see closing chapters as failure. Like, oh, well you, you failed at being an attorney. No, I didn’t fail at being an attorney.

I was [00:16:00] a bombass attorney. You know, like, you know, I, I did, I did great work for great clients at a great firm, and I had great colleagues. I will never regret that chapter in my life, and I’m happy I did it. But it was time to move on. I, I gave it six to seven years and, and I’m very happy that I did. And now I’m, I’m working on my business and, you know, who’s to say maybe in five years I’ll decide that I wanna go back to law and work, uh, you know, in house for a company that.

Focuses on consumer goods, because before I left, I did a lot of work in the advertising space, specifically with consumer goods, like beverages, dietary supplements, food, uh, cosmetics. That was like more, that was kind of like my world. So who knows if somebody from like SA Lauder’s listening to this right?

And they’re like, Cindy, we wanna hire you. Fantastic. Right? Like the, the point that I’m trying to make is that when you have Afin a solid financial foundation, you can make these decisions. Yes, with more [00:17:00] confidence. Mm-hmm. , because if I did not have a financial foundation a hundred percent, I would not have left my law firm.

Mm-hmm. not at all scared? No. Oh, absolutely. I would’ve been like, if this fails, You know, I, if this really like, for some reason just doesn’t work out for whatever, for whatever reason, like, what am I gonna do? Right? I, I’m going to get behind on bills. I, I still have to pay my law school loans and, and those, uh, the mounting credit card debt that feels like you can never get out of, and I’m still trying to improve my credit.

Like all those things. I think that, uh, I would’ve done it with greater hesitancy and, and to be very honest with you, I don’t think I would’ve done it at. Yeah. 

Allison: Yeah. I mean, I, I agree. I mean, it’s just so much risk to take on. Yeah. But I’m excited that you did because it gave you the opportunity and the time and the freedom to work on writing a book.

Yeah. And I want you to tell us about that book. [00:18:00] What is it called? Where can we get it, and who is it for? Like specifically, who is it? 

Cindy: So it’s called Overcoming Debt, achieving Financial Freedom, eight Pillars to Build Wealth. And you know, you can go ahead and uh, and check it out on Amazon Bar de Noble, uh, target.com.

And you know, this book is truly for. Either the person that’s very early into the journey or the people that, the people that are on the journey, right? And I wanna explain both. See the person that’s just starting this journey, this book is an excellent resource guide for what I believe. Are the fundamental pillars you need to have in place when it comes to your financial life.

Okay? How do we build that financial foundation, right? Like we’ve been talking about that in this episode. How do I get to the point where I can have the confidence to say yes? To certain [00:19:00] opportunities or to say no to things that no longer serve me. How do I get to that point? And I think the book is an excellent roadmap for exactly what you need to do to get there.

Everything from, you know, auditing your own numbers, how to do that, uh, how to pay off that, how to budget, even if you don’t wanna track every single dollar, right? How to build your credit, how to start. Seen how to increase your income. Like all of these concepts are in the book with specific examples, right?

Like, person A does X, Y, z, you know, over a course of six months or whatever it may be. I, I draw out examples in my book because I’m personally a very visual person. Mm-hmm. , I’ve always loved learning. Through examples, and that’s how I teach. You know, I don’t just say credit is X, y, z, . I say, okay, these are the five credit scores and these are five different things that we can do to improve our [00:20:00] credit score.

Mm-hmm. , let’s look at Janet’s example here, right? Mm-hmm. , like, that’s how I teach. And so, for my friends early in the journey. This is an excellent resource for you that I do feel very confident. You’re gonna keep and you’re gonna go back to mm-hmm. as you go along. And that brings me to my second group of people, which are the people that are on the journey.

Yeah. You see, for me personally, I mean, I’m in the personal finance space, right? So I own no less than like 15 personal finance books. Like they’re on my bookshelf right now. You know, I, I have all these books, um, a lot of them written from, uh, you know, some of our friends in this space. Mm-hmm. and I have these books, which, you know, which I, of course, I’ve read, uh, a lot of times I have them because they actually teach me something new every time I open them.

Yeah. And I think there, there is power to having a resource that you can go back to. Mm-hmm. , that you can feel safe to open up to a [00:21:00] specific chapter and say, what was it that Cindy said about high yield savings accounts? Again? What was it that she said again about, you know, uh, uh, using credit cards to your advantage and you can open the credit and credit card chapter.

You can open up the, oh, Cindy talks a lot about capsule wardrobes. I do. Right? I love talking about it. I love talking about clothes and, and, and fashion on my platform. Right? So let’s go to the conscious consumer, uh, chapter, right? And, and, and, and let’s see what she said about that and how to build a capsule wardrobe.

Uh, what her thoughts are on minimalism again, right? Like you can kind of go back to it. And I think that’s really important is to have a resource. We’ll support you throughout the journey. Yeah. And for me, you know, when people say, well, is the journey ever really over? No, 

Allison: I don’t think, is life ever really over?

Right? Like, like aren’t we always on some sort of journey? It just changes. 

Cindy: It just changes. Yeah. You know, and so I think that’s the beautiful part [00:22:00] about it, is that, you know, for example, for me, you know, I don’t, I don’t own a house, right. I, I rent, uh, but you know, someday my husband and I are planning on buying, you know, and when we do, we will take on debt.

So it’s not like, yeah, I’m debt free right now, but I’m not always going to be debt free. Mm-hmm. . And I know that there’s going to be a, a part of my life where I am gonna have to take on debt and I’m gonna wanna make sure that my credit is right and that I’m securing the lowest interest rate and that I know how to talk to my lender or, you know, uh, how I can best maybe negotiate.

Like all these things kind of come up, right? I mean, money is in, money is a constant in our life. So I think it’s, I think this book is also going to support the person that. Already on the journey, uh, and, and can just easily have this resource to kind of go back to. Um, and I actually do wanna mention a, a third group of people, uh, because this is really, really personal to me.

The third group of people are those that have not seen [00:23:00] themselves on bookshelves. Mm. You know, when I first started my journey and I went. To a Barnes Noble, uh, you know, all the books that I had before me were written by white men. Yep. I, there were probably like 10% of the books maybe that were written by women, uh, if that, but most were written by older white men.

And for me as a first generation daughter of immigrants, From the Bronx. You know, I do believe that representation is powerful. Mm-hmm. . And I think this book is also for those who perhaps have not seen themselves represented in personal finance and financial education so that you can hear and learn from someone that maybe they don’t look like you, but maybe they can kind of relate to your life experiences and you can connect and learn through.

Allison: Oh my gosh. I love it. I, I cannot wait. I mean, by the time this airs, the book is out. Go to Amazon, go to Barnes Noble, go to target.com. Get it. But, [00:24:00] um, I pre-ordered my copy, so it hasn’t arrived just yet, but that’s because we’re filming this, or we’re recording this. Yeah. In October. But I’m excited. I think it’s gonna help so many people.

I appreciate it. At the end of every interview, I’d love to. Just three quick questions. You should be familiar with me. Yes? Yes. Um, the first one is what is something that you’re looking forward? 

Cindy: Ooh. Um, my book launch event, I’m really looking forward to my book launch event. It’s going to be, uh, you know, for for family and friends, uh, here in New York City, and it’s gonna be in the Bronx, which is where I’m from.

And, you know, I think it’s, it’s gonna be a real full circle moment and, and I’m so excited for it. And, uh, yeah, my heart is just, It’s just like, it’s even beating fast right now thinking about it. Cause it’s like this is really happening. Uh, and, and I’m, I’m truly grateful and I can’t wait to see my family and friends, you know, all in one place celebrating something that I’m really proud of.

You know, a lot of times in society we say, well, you can only celebrate [00:25:00] weddings and, and, and babies. And it. We’re so much more than that as women, you know, we’re business owners, we’re innovators, we’re thinkers, we’re educators. And I think there’s a lot to say, uh, you know, when we, when we can have time to celebrate those moments 

Allison: as well.

I love it. I love it. The second question is, what’s one money mistake that you’ve made that you would tell everybody to avoid? 

Cindy: Uh, uh, getting into too much credit card debt. Mm-hmm. , especially for purposes of shopping, which was really my, yeah. . That was honestly, 

Allison: it wasn’t like bills. You weren’t, yeah. No, no, no.

It wasn’t 

Cindy: like, if you need to, if you absolutely need to take out credit card debt to like, Feed your family, your family, right? I’m never gonna judge you or anything like that, but like girl, you don’t need to go on Amazon right now. You don’t need to go to Target. Um, look, and I’m I’m talking about like my problem areas, right?

Like, like look, I’m 

Allison: not talking myself. 

Cindy: Yeah. Like I’m talking about my. Right. Like, I don’t need to go into the mall. I don’t need to just like go down Fifth Avenue because I’m [00:26:00] bored. Right? Like, no, you don’t need to do that. Um, and, and, well for me, honestly, I just put way too many purchases, uh, specifically, you know, shopping purchases, online, credit cards, and, you know, it was really difficult to pay them off because credit cards, high interest rates, and so exactly.

I would say, if at all possible, avoid credit card debt, especially when it comes to shopping. . 

Allison: A good one. A good one to share. And then the last one is, just finish this sentence. My favorite thing I’ve ever spent money on. Oh, 

Cindy: traveling, hands down, traveling. I went to Europe, uh, the summer with my husband. We went to Portugal.

We went to the South of France, Monaco, Paris, and Wow. You know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a pretty penny. It’s not cheap. Mm-hmm. , you know, but, It’s, it was so, it was so worth it because, you know, you create memories and experiences that like no one can ever really take away from you. It’s not something that like, eventually has like an expiration date, you know?

And I think, uh, traveling really affords the opportunity to create super special [00:27:00] memories with your loved ones or even yourself if you’re a solo traveler, 

Allison: which I’ve done as well. . I love that. Now, I know that you’ve said in the past that you and your husband might wanna live abroad for a period of time.

Is that still something you wanna. 

Cindy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and we, we really do love Europe because we, we like European cities specifically. Mm-hmm. because we love public transportation. We don’t own a car. Mm-hmm. , we’re very much city dwellers and we love, uh, places that have solid infrastructure for pedestrian, you know, friendly spaces and Right.

Uh, public transport and there, excuse me, there are a lot of European cities. You know, do have that. And, and so, uh, that’s also something that, you know, who knows Allison, maybe in like two years I’ll be like, girl, I’m in Madrid right now. 

Allison: That would be amazing. I would love, I would love to see that happen.

Oh goodness. Well, thank you so much, Cindy, for joining us. I’m gonna link to your book that is out right now, down below. That way everyone can [00:28:00] get their hands on it. I have a feeling that this interview is really going to inspire people.

Cindy: I hope so. I hope so. Thank you, Allison. I as always, truly a pleasure. Thank you.